sorry to beat this into the ground but another argument I thought of

She recently had a baby and I read some article about her working out to get into shape for her next movie. She said she worked out so hard that she was literally lying on the floor crying like a baby she was in so much pain. Why is that less a measure of committment than taking her clothes off? (personally I think she's a big baby, but that's besides the point, I'm sure she worked out hard).

Might be correct, but it's a fact that about 90% of the oscarwinning actresses of the past 25 years have done nudity. To me those are actresses who are very dedicated to their jobs and that's (to me) why they are so succesful. So nudity is something you see great actresses do much more than the actressen who are not see great. And that's enough fact to make a point.

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Its all part of the acting job. Getting into shape is one thing. '
Or, in case of De Niro, putting on a lot of weight for 'Raging bull' for example.
But there are 1001 examples you and all the others can come up with. Fact is that about 90% of the oscarwinning actresses have done nudescenes and that's no coincidence. To me that's telling us something about commitment and so on.
You can only put that aside as nonsense if you say that that's all a coincidence.

What we all agree on is that Alba is NOT a great actress. My point was that she would never win an oscar because she doesn't want to do nudity. That's not completely nonsense if you consider the fact that about 90% of the oscarwinners have done nudity. So chances in that department are not good for Alba. It's just a matter of chance.

On the other hand, lot's of us would have never expected Tom Hanks to ever win an oscar when he was doing his comedies. Same goes for the fabulous Reese Witherspoon. When given the right part, you never know.

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I think it's apples and oranges Vidman.

correct me if I'm wrong but this is basically how I see it

You're Saying: "Maybe She'd Be a Better Actress if She Were Willing to do a Nude Scene"

We're Saying: "Simply Doing a Nude Scene Won't Make Her A Better Actress" (and I'm not willing to say "She's Got a Good Chance of Improving Her Acting Reputation If Only She'd do a Nude Scene")

Real Simple and concise, here's my position (and I believe Jel and Vercingetorix's are pretty similar)

In Order to Become a Better and More Respected Actress, Jessica Alba Needs to Improve Her Acting Abilities and Skills and Doing a Nude Scene is Not Absolutely Necessary and 100% Vital to Her Accomplishing This. And You Can't Even Say It's Likely to Help Her In This Endevor.

How about we agree on this and end it already:

If she were willing to do a nude scene we'd like her a lot better.

Not true. The grass is green, but not everything that's green is grass.
I was just saying that a lot of actresses who are not afraid of nudescenes have won the oscar and therefore are better actresses. That doesn't mean that Alba will be a better actress as soon as she starts doing nudescenes. The fact that she has a no-nudity clause only tells us something about how committed she is. To me nudity is as part of being an actress as cleaning a toilet is of being a housecleaner. If you're goin to do a job as well as you can, then you also must do stuff that you maybe don't like that much. But if you want the best result, then you know it's what you'll have to do.

But I've said it before: we're not going to agree on this. So maybe we should drop it and agree on Alba never going to win an oscar.

(damn, it's hard to explain things if the language isnt your first language)

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Now I know you're not saying doing a nude scene, or having an Oscar automatically makes you a better actress.


I think you're trying to say one of two things
I didn't phrase that last comment very well
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, just understand your arguments.


1) "If She were a Better Actress She'd Probably Be Willing to do a Nude Scene"

- to me that's besides the point, she's not a better actress and just doing a nude scene won't get her there.

Or

2) "if She Were Willing to do a nude scene she'd be perceived as a more dedicated actress"

- I don't believe that doing nudity gains anyone instant credibility.

Simply put, I don't believe getting naked alone earns an actress any "bonus points" (higher prestiege, esteem, credibility) in the eyes of the Academy or Motion Picture Industry. Somehow I think they have different priorities and aren't as shallow as us guys who's main movie interest is surfing the internet to see naked chicks.


--Just to address the point, I really don't know what assumptions we can make over the fact that 90% of Oscar winning actresses have done nudity.-Most actresses who've won Oscars have been in numerous movies- Most Actresses who've been in numerous movies (including those who haven't won Oscars) have done nudity at some point. I don't think we can assume doing nudity increases your chances of winning an Oscar. I don't believe we have the evidence to support that. In fact I'd bet we get more nudity from actresses who haven't won an Oscar than from those who have.

Vidman has a good point, and here are some of my thoughts on this:

Doing a nude scene is something that top-level actresses often do. A nude scene, in and of itself, isn't just a gratuitous dead-on shot of someone standing or lying there naked - like in Bikini Carwash Company. There is usually a context, and it involves themes like seduction, the depiction of raw sexual attraction, lack of inhibition, humiliation, etc.

To the extent that a top-level actor or actress will appear in a role with nudity, it's because it involves a character that stretches their emotional range and gets them recognition for taking on that role.

Jessica Lange, in my opinion, was right where Alba is -- about 25-30 years ago. She was panned after appearing in "King Kong". She was considered a vapid non actress. She turned that perception around in movies - "The Postman Always Rings Twice" and "Frances". Both of them required full-frontal nudity and/or very sexual scenes. I remember one reviewer at the time saying her "Postman" performance was a revelation. Despite the nudity, Lange was taken MORE seriously and her career went on a permanent upswing. Both roles, though, required emotional and literal nudity.

I think that Kate Winslet takes a role purely based on the challenge of the character -- nudity or not. And it has paid off for her very well. Multiple nominations and awards for roles that required full-frontal nudity.

Contrast this with Alba and Aniston. Both of them appear to take a role purely based on whether nudity is required. That leaves them both, for the most part, doing safe roles with limited range.

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Sorry V, but maybe you're watching too many nude scenes. I don't think a nude scene for an actress is as basic and elemental as scrubbing a toilet is for a housecleaner.

If you're a housecleaner, cleaning is your job, and scrubbing the toilet is part of cleaning.... If you didn't scrub the toilet you haven't cleaned the house properly... Do you really believe that getting naked is such an elemental part of acting and so crucial to it, that if you didn't get naked you haven't done a good job acting?

I think a better analogy is if you're a solider at war, getting shot at is part of the job, but it's not assumed to be necessary...... You may get shot at, and you may not, but the fact that you don't get shot at doesn't make you a poorer solider does it?

There are some demanding roles that don't require nudity, but I doubt they could land these either..... I think they're limited more by their acting skills than by their refusal to do nudity.

But you do have some good points I think everyone will agree on
* If you refuse to do nudity, you may eliminate yourself from some great roles. However I don't think this automatically makes you a subpar actress
* Nudity is not always gratitous, but is sometimes necessary and can ad to a movie.

http://www.radiofree.com/profiles/jessi ... ew01.shtml


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Michelle Trachtenberg falls into this group with Beautiful Ohio

I have wondered whether her drop in starring roles in theatrical movies since then has anything to do with that

That's precisely what I'm saying. But it does depend on that balance - director and project. Always those before anything else.
There's not that many good roles out there for women either, so you must be prepared to surpass such things, if you want to make it.

It's also a cultural thing. Look at some top British actresses: Tilda Swinton, Helen Mirren, Kate Winslet, and Helena Bonham Carter. They have all done roles with tons of nudity. Not bimbo-esque roles, either. But it seems like it is more acceptable for a British actress to appear nude in a film and/or they are more comfortable accepting the role.

Marion Cotillard is an Oscar-winning actress who has done multiple full-frontal scenes. She is just one of MANY esteemed French actresses who have.

In the U.S., it seems sometimes like there is a stigma attached to both the film and the actress. Alba may be behaving pragmatically instead of like a prude. If she is going to be naked, it would have to be for a really good role, and that's the paradox for her, because who is actually going to offer her that kind of role?

Halle Berry and Salma Hayek (with the exception of the scenes she did in "Desperado", which were done under protest) waited many years before they did nudity/full-frontal nudity. They were older, more established, and less likely to be dismissed as bimbos for being naked in a film.

I also find it kind of galling that a film like "Sin City" would have Carla Gugino in it naked, even though her character was not a stripper, and yet Jessica Alba's character was clothed. To me, it sounds like she is basically fibbing about how the decision about her character's nudity (or lack thereof) all went down.

You're right and she hasn't been fully commited to several roles she's played. We've seen in the past when actresses who have tried branching out into more serious roles have changed their stance on things so maybe this will be the case if she does decide to look for less lightweight roles.

gunnisonbeach19, wasn't Halle Berry not taken seriously as an actress until she did that steamy nude sex scene in Monster's Ball? I don't think she was "established" as an actress at all.